Savage Lovecast Episode 1042

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04] Today's episode is brought to you by Love Unlimited, a sexual wellness retailer that carries brands like Lilo and B-Vibe and nothing on the package says what's inside. For a limited time, all toys are buy one, get one 50% off. If you are like me, if you are looking for a recommendation from me, get the Love & Domi 2. You will be glad you did. Go to loveunlimited.com slash savage or use code savage at checkout.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_02] You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grownups. If you're under 18, get out of here, youngin'.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00] If you're stuck in a relationship quandary, or if you're looking for sexual harmony, I'm the Savage Lovecast.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_04] I have listened to a lot of men talk about other men's asses over the course of my long gay life, but it was really weird to listen to the president of the United States talk about another man's ass the way Donald Trump talked about Senator John Husted's ass last week.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_04] Husted is a U.S. Senator from Ohio. He was appointed by Governor Mike DeWine to take J.D. Vance's seat after he became vice president, and he's running now for a full term. He is a MAGA Republican. They're all MAGA Republicans now. And Donald Trump thinks he's got a hot piece of ass. Here's the super cut courtesy of USA Today of Donald Trump talking about John Husted's ass at several rallies last week.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_05] I'm studying his body. I've never studied the body of a man before. It's not my thing. Nothing wrong with it, of course. But I looked at his ass, and then I looked at his legs, and I said, his ass is shit. It's like a pile of muscle. I stood right over here, and I examined his ass. I never did that with... No, I never did that with a man before.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_05] I don't do this with men very often. I started examining his body, because I didn't know he was a great athlete. And I looked, and I watched up and down, and I looked at his ass, and I looked at the whole...

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_04] Whatever Trump sees in Husted? Yeah, I Google image searched him. I don't see it. Zooming out for a second. For me, one of the perks of being in a gay relationship, a healthy gay relationship, is getting to appreciate the beauty of other men together with your boyfriend or your husband, sometimes both at the same time.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_04] A straight guy walking down the street who sees a hot woman, if that guy nudges his girlfriend and says, check her out, that guy is an asshole in most cases, almost all cases. Because most women, women in almost all cases, are going to find that rude, inconsiderate, sexist, and gross. And his girlfriend, the straight guy who says, check her out, to his girlfriend, his girlfriend is going to be mad. But if I don't point out hot guys to my boyfriend, he gets mad.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_04] So when we're at the gym, I will walk by him, and under my breath say, blonde, 10 o'clock. A few minutes later, I'll get a text from him that says, aggro, boy, squat rack now. Yes, we have nicknames for our favorite regulars at the gym. Aggro boy always looks good, but he always looks mad, hence the nickname. In defense of our perving at the gym, it is unlike Donald Trump's perving and raping. It is our perving secret, and secret perving is permissible perving.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_04] Me and the boyfriend at the gym, we are discreet, we are perv fucking ninjas. And neither of us would trouble each other. Neither of us would nudge each other. Neither of us would want the other to waste even one of our precious retinal neurons on John Husted, who is running against former Democratic Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown. Brown is ahead in the polls, fingers crossed. Now for the record, I am more than willing to admit when I find a Republican attractive,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_04] someone can be politically repulsive and still be physically attractive. So yeah, to prove I'm not refusing to see the beauty of John Husted's glutes, because I find his politics repulsive, I'm going to enter this into the record. Josh Hawley, Republican Senator from Missouri, the cowardly little insurrectionist who is so insecure in his masculinity that he wrote a book on manhood. Josh Hawley is hot.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_04] I would, of course, rather do his hot, identical twin brother who isn't a Trumper. But if Josh Hawley himself were to appear before me at Folsom Berlin in full rubber, Hawley kind of looks like a European rubber guy. I'd do him. Hate fucks are real fucks. And sometimes, you know, the hate fuck fucks some sense into a person. Anyway, I'm running my mouth here about John Husted's ass and Josh Hawley in full rubber,

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_04] because I don't know what else to do. I am so stressed out about the midterms next week. And I haven't been sleeping much. And I currently have no filter. You could say I have asses on the brain right now. I always have asses on the brain. But it's especially acute right now because I want voters to hand Donald Trump his ass in the midterms next week so badly I can't think about anything else. I want to see a blue wave so big.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_04] It elects Democrats to the Senate from Texas and Iowa and South Carolina and Ohio. Sherrod Brown for the win. I want to see a blue wave big enough to give Dems a huge majority in the House. A blue wave so big it wipes the smirk and the pancake makeup right off Donald Trump's ugly ass face. Anyway, if you haven't voted yet in the midterms, please vote. Vote blue no matter who.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_04] Vote blue no matter what. And if you're a listener in Washington state, please vote no on I-638 and I-001. Whoever you come down on trans girls in sports, initiative 638, which would require all girls who wish to participate in school sports to provide proof of their birth sex. Just the girls, not the boys. It's very poorly worded and it is not the way forward and could be abused by bad actors. Even the conservatives at the Seattle Times are urging a no vote.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_04] Vote no on I-638. And also, please vote no on initiative 001, which among other shitty things could require schools to out queer kids to homophobic or transphobic parents. For a lot of queer kids out there, school is their only refuge. Some kids have really shitty parents. And school is the only place they can open up to a trusted adult.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_04] And I-001 could take that away from them and put them at risk of homelessness or worse. So if you're voting in Washington, again, please vote no on I-001 and I-638. If you're voting anywhere else, please vote for the Democrats up and down the ballot. Please vote blue no matter who. All right. A bi woman in her first woman-loving woman relationship isn't feeling a sexual spark. Is it because her girlfriend wears baggy, unflattering clothes?

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04] Another caller wants tips for hitting on a healthcare provider. I'm going to go out on a limb and give her some. And on the Magnum, I had a great conversation with humor writer Eli McCann. His new book about Utah's, I hope you're sitting down, Utah's competitive quilting scene is a surprise New York Times bestseller. Together, Eli and I answer a couple of calls concerning the Mormon church. Eli was raised in it. But to hear my conversation with Eli, you gotta be my sub. Fortunately, becoming one of my subs is easy.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_04] Go to savage.love and click on subscribe for full access to the longer, stronger, ad-free Magnum Savage Lovecast. You'll also get invites to Savage Love Live, a Zoom hangout for me and Lovecast listeners. Our next one is going to be November 12th, noon Pacific time, 3 p.m. Eastern and 9 p.m. right here in Europe where I am now. Magnum Subs will get an invite emailed to you the morning of the show. And if you want to be there, be with us for the show to decompress about the midterm elections.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_04] Become a Magnum sub now. Savage.love slash subscribe. And, oh yeah, one more thing. It's your last chance to get me a quickie call. Keep your question under one minute. I will keep my answer under two. Get me your question right now today because we are recording tonight. Send your question to Q at savage.love or give us a call at 206-302-2064. And our quickie show comes out next Tuesday, midterm election day.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_04] Something light, funny, quick, and distracting to help you pass a little bit of the time while we're all waiting for and stressing about the results. All right. On to the first call. This episode is brought to you by VB Health, doctor-formulated supplements that work. To learn more about Load Boost, Drive Boost, and Soaking Wet, and to get 10% off, visit vb.health and use the code SAVAGE.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04] I can help you get your sex life together, but where can you go to get your financial life together? Here at the Lovecast, we get questions all the time about money that I have no idea how to answer. For money advice that thinks outside the closet, schedule a judgment-free consultation with the team at Toller Financial Group today at tollerfinancialgroup.com slash savage. This episode is brought to you by Mack Weldon, timeless, innovative menswear to help you move through the day with confidence.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_04] Get 20% off your first order of $125 or more with promo code SAVAGE at MackWeldon.com.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03] Hi, Dan. 42-year-old bi woman calling from Australia. I spent a large portion of my adult life being mostly single, some due to circumstance and some just not finding anyone I was interested in. A lot of my past relationships were fraught with trauma. I'm talking narcissists, addicts, abusers. After a lengthy period of singlehood, a lot of self-work, therapy, and reflection, I finally learned to truly love and value myself. I've investigated my desires and needs and what I want from life and a relationship.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_03] I learned to set my standards much higher, which led to a significantly reduced dating pool to draw from. Thankfully, I finally realized that I'm bi. And let me tell you the immense relief of not having to date emotionally disabled boys dressed in man suits anymore. Hashtag not all men. I met a really wonderful woman. We have a great emotional, spiritual, and intellectual connection. We have a lot of common interests, values, and goals. The sex is also great. It took some experimenting because she was my first non-hat sex partner, but we figured it out and I honestly really enjoy it.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03] But at the same time, I don't feel much desire, which is unusual for me. Side note, I'm fairly certain it's not perimenopause. I really love this woman and can see us building a life together. But I feel like I've been waiting for my heart to shift into the in love phase. And it's just not coming. I feel so superficial saying this, but I have to be honest if I want useful advice. I think it's because of the way she dresses. She's really gorgeous and sexy, but she hides her body away in baggy, unflattering boyish clothes.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03] I'm attracted to women who are a bit more feminine presenting. Not super femme by any means, but just clothing that's a bit more flattering. Usually, I just have to look at or be in the presence of the person I'm attracted to. And I want to jump their bones like multiple times a day. But with this woman, I'm kind of meh about desire. It feels like that little extra spark is missing. Now, I know I can't ask someone to change the way they dress and no one should have to change to please their partner, especially as her previous partner, who was abusive,

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_03] told her she wasn't pretty enough and didn't like her clothes. Am I crazy to let this stupid superficial thing get in the way of what could be a truly happy relationship? The only time I've honestly experienced that kind of mind-blowing love that always comes with mind-blowing sex because I need that level of love for sex to be mind-blowing. It was with someone who either didn't feel that way about me or who was incapable of a healthy relationship. Is it unrealistic to want mind-blowing intense in loveness as well as a stable companion and friendship?

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_03] I'm under no delusions, Dan. I'm not looking for a 10. But I found it extremely difficult to find a 0.6 or 0.7 that rounds up to 10. I live in a big city, but it's a mining city. And I'm a lefty environmentalist and my people are a minority here. Before you say it, moving and non-monogamy are not an option for me. I'm worried that if I give up this 0.6, 0.7 person who mostly makes me happy, I'll have ruined my last opportunity at happiness. But it also feels unfair to her because she's madly in love with me.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03] She deserves to be with someone who's madly, passionately in love with her too. So I guess I'm wondering, how can I make peace with being mostly happy with someone? Or would it be better to end it and make my peace with potentially never finding that someone? I just want someone to share and witness life with. Someone to stand beside me during the hard stuff, during the everyday stuff, during the holidays. Everything that I love about my life and also everything else is just so much better when it's shared.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_04] She could be that person who stands beside you during the hard stuff, is there over the holidays if you're willing to settle for her. And she sounds pretty great. I guess the question is, you think it's unfair somehow to her if you were to settle, that she deserves someone who's as madly, passionately in love with her as she seems to be with you.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_04] And as you have been in the past for just a couple of other people that you were with, but with briefly. And those relationships don't sound like they were good relationships, but there was passion there. One of the bitter ironies of intimacy, of a stable long-term connection is that it really is the enemy of passion and desire.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_04] An intimate relationship is comfortable, it's secure, it's familiar. Desire often relies on danger, strangeness, newness. And it's crazy how what we want, what we want out of a relationship are both those things at once. And those things are kind of in conflict. Those things are, or one is an enemy or an assassin of the other.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_04] Intimacy is an assassin and it kills, it can kill desire. I think that can be gamed in a long-term relationship. As I've said probably a hundred million times on the podcast, at the beginning of a relationship, you are the adventure that they're on, they're the adventure you're on. If you want to continue to feel that kind of passion, that's something new, dangerous and adventurous brought into your life and you're with a long-term partner, you have to go on adventures together. That's how you get it back.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_04] But the problem in this relationship is it doesn't sound like it was ever there for you with her in the first place. She's great. She's wonderful. She's loving. She's comfortable. You enjoy her. You have shared interests. There's a real connection there, but it doesn't sound like there has ever been any sexual passion. You don't want to jump her bones when you're together. And I don't think it's the clothes.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_04] I don't think it's the baggy boyish clothes that she wears because surely you say that she's got a great body. Surely she's not in those clothes all the time. She showers. When you do have sex, she takes those things off. You can, when you want to initiate sex, take those things off her. So while you're generally attracted to more femme presenting women and you do say you've

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_04] only recently realized you're bi and that she is the first woman that you've been with, it sounds to me like pointing to what she's wearing and maybe hearing about the shitty relationship she was in with somebody who also took issue with her clothes is the MacGuffin is just what you attached the lack of passion and desire to that you defaulted to this explanation

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_04] because it's obvious and surface because confronting what's really going on here goes much deeper. There just isn't that connection that you wish there was. And it makes you feel shallow. And so you've attached it to something shallow, what she's wearing. She is the first woman you've ever been with. Maybe she's not the person you're going to be with long-term.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_04] You say you've given this some time and the passion isn't there. That feeling of being madly in love, passionately in love, sexually obsessed with, none of that has kicked in. I guess you could give that a little bit more time, but obviously if that doesn't come and you want to be in this relationship and you want someone, you want her there beside you for the hard stuff for the holidays, you could choose to stay in this relationship, but then you're giving something up.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_04] Settling down requires settling for. You would be settling for a relationship where you don't experience the kind of sexual connection and sexual passion that you experienced a handful of other times in your life. And only you can answer the question whether that sacrifice, whether that settling for would be worth it. I can't answer that question for you.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_04] A lot of people in life wind up with partners that they love and they have strong emotional connections with, but not sexual passion. Are you willing to give that up to be with her? If you are, perhaps you can make this relationship work. She could be that person standing beside you. If you're not willing to give that up, you should end this relationship sooner rather than later.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_11] Hi, Dan, Nancy, and the tech savvy at-risk youth. I'm a cis woman in my mid-30s in Southern California. I recently had an x-ray done on my little finger and the x-ray technician, let's just call him Max, seemed maybe romantically interested. Difficult to tell if it was just great bedside manner, but about a month later, I ran into him again because my dad had to go in for a separate injury and I accompanied my dad, thinking I would

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_11] see a whole new set of employees, which I did, except for Max, who was the same x-ray technician. He recognized me. We had warm banter. He mentioned that he rotates clinic locations. So between that and this being an urgent care center, I'll likely not run into him ever again. I also checked the dating apps and didn't see him on any of them. I haven't felt this attracted to anyone in about two years, and the unknown is driving me crazy and kind of making me ruminate.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_11] Normally, I'm bold and dominant leaning when I like someone. I like to open the door to connection and accept whatever the answer is, even if it's rejection, incompatibility, or something that works. But because this is a healthcare setting and I've never been in this position, I'm intimidated by the strict legal and ethical boundaries here. And I'm really second guessing myself on how to open up a connection or if I should at all. I don't know if this is a you only live once kind of thing.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_11] I want to respect the rules of this workplace environment, and I don't want to compromise this person's professional standing or affect him negatively or creep him out. But I regularly send thank you notes to professional service providers in my life. And I feel like Max genuinely did a great job. So it feels natural and appropriate to drop off a nice thank you note praising his work performance and leave it with the clinic's reception desk to pass along to him.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_11] But Dan, what is the acceptable level of risk here? Is there a dignified, safe way to add my phone number to the bottom of this note? Maybe along with a low-pressure invitation to get coffee or a drink if he ever wants to? Or could that get him into trouble with management or put him in an uncomfortable position where he has to report something like that? Or maybe it makes him worry about me coming in again, which I don't plan to, but he doesn't know that.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_11] Is the healthcare setting one of the few places in the world where you just can't shoot your shot? It's just inappropriate and you have to let it go?

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_04] If nobody shoots their shot, Nobody ever takes a risk. If nobody ever goes with their gut, nobody ever gets fucking laid. The professional regulations, limits that you're concerned about, they bind healthcare professionals in a healthcare setting. They don't necessarily bind patients. There is a power imbalance when somebody is a healthcare provider,

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_04] when somebody is your doctor, they shouldn't hit on you because of that power imbalance. But you, as the patient, you could hit on him so long as the hitting or the making of the pass is not physical. You're not cornering anybody. You're not lunging at anybody. You're not embarrassing them in front of their peers or colleagues. You're not behaving inappropriately in a professional setting.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_04] But sending a note after the fact, even creeping into somebody's DMs, if you can find them on Instagram, they can just block you. They can shut that down pretty easily. And so I would allow it. I don't want to live in a world where nobody ever shoots their shot for fear of making somebody else uncomfortable.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_04] So long as the discomfort isn't so great that that person can't do their job or is traumatized or has caused to feel fear. And I do think men who are making passes that women need to be much more sensitive to this. Women are often fending off a lot more unwanted male sexual attention than men are having to fend off unwanted sexual attention from women. So guys need to be cognizant of that, need to factor that in.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_04] Because when you're a guy hitting on a woman, you might be the 10th guy that afternoon to hit on that woman. And so you really need to control for dickful thinking and be very sensitive about the approach. But men don't get hit on like that by women very often. And so the context is different.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_04] You, as a woman, hitting on this guy with a note, not during a procedure, not while he was tending to you professionally, but a note later that says, hey. Whether you drop that thank you note off at his office or you find him on Instagram and slide into his DMs like people do every day. A note that says, hey, you want to get coffee sometime?

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_04] Okay, maybe he'll feel some slight discomfort with that, especially if the feeling isn't mutual or he has a partner. There's some reason he can't do it or doesn't want to do it. But we are guaranteed lives free from all discomfort. And the discomfort of knowing that there's somebody out there that he met at work who wanted to fuck him, have a coffee with him, I think is discomfort that he can bear up under.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_04] So, shoot your shot. Send the note. Make the pass. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Drive Boost. Terry, you are the horniest person I've ever met after me. Have you noticed a difference? You've always been dialed up to 11 since the day I met you. Where are you at now? Oh, easily 16, 17. So you have noticed a difference? Yeah, I mean, have you? Yeah, and you a big one.

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[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_06] Dan, I'm finally calling in after appreciating your work for so long. I've been with my partner two and a half years. We spend a month together, a month apart, a month together, a month apart, more or less. My question really is about how to look at the female orgasm. Is it better to keep having regular orgasms while we're apart?

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_06] Or is it better to save them up so that they are more intense and I'm able to come easier when we're together? How do I look at orgasms? Is it like I got to move it or lose it at this age? Or is it like a savings account where I want to save it for when it really counts?

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_04] There's this Doritos commercial from like 1990, 36 years ago. Jay Leno is in it. And he basically says to young guys, young straight guys, Doritos demographic, that potato chips, yeah, potato chips are for children. Potato chips are for pussies. Nacho cheese Doritos, those are the chips. Those are for real men. Nacho cheese Doritos.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_04] Those real men crunch on nacho cheese Doritos. Weirdly, this ad, which has been stuck in my head for 36 years, came back to me.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_05] Nacho cheese Doritos. You're a man now. You're going to handle it. Come on. Crunch all you want.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_04] We'll make more. Crunch all you want. We will make more. Caller. And I'm so glad you finally called. I've been waiting for your call for years. Caller. Come all you want. You will come more. There isn't an orgasm savings bank out there. You don't get compound interest. If you wait a month to come, it's not like the orgasm you're going to have when you see your partner is that orgasm when you guys get back together.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_04] Plus all the erotic intensity and the buildup of all the orgasms you didn't have while you were away. So I would encourage you to come. Come when you're apart. If you want your partner involved in your orgasms, you talk about orgasm management. There's a kink and a fetish out there for orgasm denial, orgasm control. You guys could build something into your erotic dynamic where when you want to masturbate, maybe you have to ask for permission.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_04] When he wants to masturbate, he asks for permission. So you guys are in the loop where there's a little bit of power. Power play is always sexy. Power play is always fun. Most kinks have a power element to them where you do have some control and engagement and involvement with each other while you're apart and you're masturbating. You can gamify this not by denying yourself orgasms while you're apart with the specious belief that that will make the orgasms you have when you get back together that much more powerful,

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_04] but by giving each other control over when you get to come. And of course that control, usually I think if he asks you for permission, you should say yes. And when you ask him for permission, he should say yes. But every once in a while, maybe a little bit of denial. You say no just to prove that you can. And he says no just to prove that he can.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_04] And to me, that seems so much hotter, so much sexier than going without for a month. Come and come and come. Come all you want. You will come more. And when you get back together and come that first time, it's not going to be a month's buildup. Yeah, maybe for a few days before you get back together, you knock it off or he knocks it off in anticipation. There will be a little bit of a buildup there, a little bit of a payoff there. But a few days is all it takes.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_04] It's all you need to magnify that intensity of your reunion. And I realized to everybody out there listening who is deep into Locktober, Locktober, a little bit like come denial Lent, come denial Ramadan for people out there, people fasting, orgasm fasts right now. Locktober. And then no not vote November. That's the whole season of orgasm denial.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_04] And I am, I think as evidence is my response to you, caller, I'm not an orgasm denial guy. I want people to crunch all they want and make more. Money questions and relationships start on the first date, whether you met on the apps or you met in real life. As our sex lives and our relationships grow, so too can the financial stress. Have you ever wished you could find someone like me to answer your financial questions?

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[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_04] Their advice is personal, inclusive, and private. Learn more about their Get Your Finances Together offer for Savage Lovecast listeners at TolarFinancialGroup.com slash savage and schedule a no judgment free consultation with their team today. That's T-O-L-E-R financialgroup.com slash savage. Let them know the Lovecast sent you. TolarFinancialGroup.com slash savage.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_09] Hey, Dan. Longtime Magnum sub here calling with a question. A friend of mine had an affair with a married guy, sexless marriage. They didn't have any explicit agreement, although it sounds like maybe kind of a not explicit. Don't ask. Don't tell if that's even a thing. The guy had said that his wife suspects that he's kind of, he travels a lot for work and the wife suspects something, but doesn't know and that she would be hurt if she found out.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_09] My friend and this man had a pretty intense connection. They, you know, had, when he was visiting her city, they met a couple of times, had like intense sex, continued to text and sex throughout, like, you know, while he was, while he wasn't visiting her city. And then for, you know, a few months were, you know, had this like sex relationship. And then it kind of morphed into just like friendly texting and like chit chat.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_09] My friend ultimately, I think, was very dissatisfied with that transition. Felt a little rejected. I think an irritated. It got a little messy. And then ultimately my friend decided to end the relationship. So, and then with that, she took it upon herself, I think feeling hurt and angry to message the wife saying, hey, I had an affair with your husband. I don't think it was necessarily coming from a place of like genuine concern.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_09] I think she maintains like she, that, you know, she didn't want this dude to get away with it. That, you know, there's some like ugly kind of this ugly emotions, like, you know, consequences, that type of thing. But also she kind of felt like the wife had a right to know and that maybe it would open dialogue for their marriage and ultimately be beneficial. So I don't necessarily maintain that.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_09] In my opinion, it's probably best not to insert yourself into anybody's marriage, even if you are an affair partner. I'm like, why would you even want to want to get involved in that? But I was curious your take, like what your opinion is and if there is ever a role to, you know, let the wife know or let the, you know, the person who has been cheated on, whether it's good to let them know.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_04] It got a little messy? No, it didn't. Your friend did. Your friend got messy. Yeah, I don't think this was coming from a place of genuine concern either. I don't think what your friend did came from a place of genuine concern for the poor cheated on spouse at home. Your friend was fine with this dude getting away with it so long as she was getting it. And the minute it became clear to her that she wasn't going to be getting it anymore.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_04] She called the wife. She wanted to punish this guy for ending the affair. And the wife was just a tool that she used to punish him. Yeah, maybe the wife had a right to know. Maybe what your friend did will open a dialogue. Maybe theirs will be one of those marriages that in the wake of the revelation of an affair, repair is done and the marriage is improved.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_04] And there is better communication, sometimes even a reestablished sexual connection. But your friend can't know that. It could also end in disaster. Sometimes there are reasons that people in sexless marriages stay together. Good reasons that they might stay together. Physical dependence, emotional dependence. Maybe they have kids together. Maybe there is a lot at stake here.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_04] And the tacit, not articulated, DADT understanding that they had. Maybe the toliamory that they were practicing made it possible for them to stay in this imperfect marriage. But being forced to confront the imperfections, the cheating, the lying, the deception, and the self-deception may make it impossible for them to stay in this marriage.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_04] And, okay, that might be ultimately to the good for both. Maybe this is a marriage that needs to end. But, again, I know this is hard sometimes for people to wrap their heads around. But there are reasons people stay in not great, imperfect marriages. In sexless marriages. Maybe one is dependent on the other.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_04] And it's not always the cheater who's dependent on the one being cheated on. Sometimes it is the reverse. Maybe there are kids. Maybe there are kids with special needs that need two parents in the home. And they are both doing what they need to do. Or one of them is doing what he needs to do in order to stay married and stay sane. And it was ultimately to the benefit of both or a larger community to a family with kids that they stay in this marriage.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_04] And the revelation of the affair may have made that impossible. But we can't know. And it's, in a way, irrelevant. You didn't ask me about whether this was a secret magic recipe that would improve the relationship or the marriage of the married man who'd been fucking your friend. And you asked me about your friend's motives and her rationalization for her actions.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_04] And yeah, she can construct a rationalization where she is the hero in this story. Where the scales fell from her eyes the minute the dick fell from her lips. And she eventually did the right thing by ratting this guy out to his wife. No. No. No. Your friend acted maliciously and selfishly to hurt her ex-lover.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_04] And she didn't care if that hurt his wife or if they have kids, their kids. She was only thinking of herself. One caveat here. I feel like a little bit of a hypocrite. I feel like, full disclosure, I should include this. Someone let me know once, many years ago, that I had been cheated on. And not just cheated on, but this was someone that I was not using condoms with. And he cheated and he wasn't safe.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_04] The stakes were high. This was pre-prep, pre-pep, pre-everything. And it was the right thing to do. And I am glad the person who ratted out, the person who cheated on me, ratted out the person who cheated on me. It also wasn't the end of that relationship. Although looking back, it should have been. So, yeah, I know there are scenarios in which the call about the affair was the right call.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_04] But I doubt very much that in this instance, what your friend did, that that call, that that was the right call. Don't get me wrong. I love my big, crazy poly life. But you know what I hate? I hate shopping. And when you have a husband and a boyfriend, that is more holiday shopping to deal with. Fortunately, it will be easy for me this year because I have Mack Weldon in my corner.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_04] And when I get to see them in the new underpants I'm getting them, that's a gift I'll be giving myself too. Mack Weldon makes quality clothing from top to bottom. Socks, underwear, chinos, wool sweaters. They're all simple, stylish, and very well made. Mack Weldon clothes are designed to fit your style and the demands of modern life. From office parties to meeting the parents. Mack Weldon's timeless pieces help you transition effortlessly between everything you're up to this holiday season.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_04] Don't tell Terry, but I'm going to be giving him some Air Knit X cotton boxers. And my boyfriend is getting the porcelain Heather briefs. But do not tell him. And hey, I might get Terry's boyfriend a tank top. We'll see. Get your guys. Fresh, versatile, basic for the holidays. Or your guy, singular. Or your gal or gals. Or your non-binary or agender partner. There is something for everyone. There's something for everyone's someone. There's someone's at Mack Weldon.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_04] Go to MackWeldon.com and get 20% off your first order of $125 or more with promo code SAVAGE. That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N dot com code SAVAGE.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_10] Hi, Dan. I'm a mid-30s, agender, bi person in a relationship with a cis-pan guy. I'm AFAB. I have no desire to masculinize or pass as a man. But while I was dirty talking with my partner, we discovered that we're both really into the idea of small dick degradation. Specifically, degrading me for having a small dick and calling me gay or a girl and using slurs towards me. Which is weird because I don't have a dick. We're both like super turned on by this. And we want to get me a strap-on with a tiny dildo to take it further.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_10] That said, he's also a little concerned about how much he really enjoys using explicit like gay and transphobic slurs during this play. He's never used any hate speech or slurs outside of this. And he's always really respectful of my gender identity. I'm also a little worried that it's somehow homophobic or transphobic for me to enjoy this. Or that other people might kick me out of the queer community found out that I was into this. Is it okay to enjoy being degraded for genitals or identity that I don't actually have?

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_04] My first impulse is to tell you that if gay guys can call their assholes pussies and cunts, and some do, without getting kicked out of the queer community, you as an agender assigned female at birth person with a cis pan male partner, you can enjoy being degraded for genitals or an identity that you don't have during sex play.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_04] You can do or say whatever you want, so long as your partner enjoys it too. And sounds like your partner enjoys it. It's good, I guess. It speaks well of your partner that he experienced some conflict about the shit that is coming out of his mouth. Now that you've both stumbled over the fact that you enjoy small penis humiliation, SPH,

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_04] even though you're an AFAB, agender person who does not wish to masculinize their body at all. So you do not have a dick and you will never have a dick unless you decide to strap one on and strap a small one on to further lean into and explore the SPH that you've been enjoying with your partner. Yeah, you're allowed to do this.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_04] You might have friends out there in the queer community who would object or take issue. Well, don't tell them about it. Don't put it on the internet. Don't do it at parties. But privately, when it's just you and your lover, anything goes. You can do whatever that... I love that song from Avenue Q. You can be as loud as the hell you want when you're making love.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_04] You can also say whatever the hell you want to your partner so long as they enjoy hearing it or enjoy saying it back to you when you're making love. So I guess if you needed somebody's permission to do this, you have mine.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_04] My God, think of all the gay guys out there who love being called faggot when they're sucking a guy off or being called a cocksucker when they're sucking a cock. Think of all the women out there who are feminists and empowered, but during sex they like hearing misogynistic terms like slut and whore.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_04] Or you are a part of the degradation dirty talk community, a community that transcends sexual orientation and gender identity. There are some of everybody in the degradation dirty talk community. And you are a part of that community. You have a kink. Enjoy it with a partner who consents, who enjoys it too. Be thoughtful about it. Don't do it on the bus. Don't do it at a sex party.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_04] Don't do it in front of anyone that you aren't absolutely sure would enjoy it too. Otherwise, don't feel bad about doing it. It's sex play. All things are allowed during sex play. Owe to ourselves and our partners to be thoughtful about it. Sounds like you too are being thoughtful about it. Order that strap on. Get that small dildo. Again, don't do it on the bus. Don't do it in church. Don't do it at your polling place.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_04] But don't not do it for fear of getting kicked out of the queer community if your friends should find out about it. Your friends don't need to know. All right. It is time for listener feedback. First up, a few comments listeners left about last week's show in the comment threads at savage.love. Says MS for the 33-year-old virgin thinking about seeing a sex worker but concerned about online trackers. All right. Everything after this makes no sense to me, but here we go. Get a good VPN.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_04] Create a Proton mail email account. Download Firefox Focus browser. Add uBlock origin and privacy badger extensions. Go to Trist and find a sex worker. Says Ricks68 about the same call. When I was 17, I lost my cherry to a nice sex worker who tried to talk me out of it. She wanted me to find the right girl and make it special. I wish that I had listened to her because that was the start of a lifelong pattern of me relying on sex workers to meet my needs.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_04] I guess we all pay for sex in one way or another, but I hope this caller manages to find the right woman to cross that threshold with. Finally, says Jane. For the married mom who called into the show because she wants to blow up her life, I feel you. I did it. I opened up my marriage, had a lot of sex, met a boyfriend, ended up separating from my husband of 30 plus years and moving to a new state. While I needed to pursue happiness in a different way, it wasn't without sacrifice.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_04] I'm lonelier than I thought I would be in my new city. Finding great sex can be exhausting. My finances are challenging and my relationship with my children is strained. All of this to say, caller, I see you and I agree with Dan. Get into therapy for yourself and with your husband, assuming you still love him, ASAP. You need to figure out how to live a better life, but it's not as simple as running away from the life you have now. Virtual hugs. All right.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_04] Got something to say about something I said or something to say to someone I talked to on this week's show? Jump into the comment threads at savage.love and say it there right now. Or if you want to say it out loud, if you want to say it with your whole chest, go to savage.love slash askdan or text us a voice memo at 206-302-2064. You can also leave us a voicemail at that number with your comment, 206-302-2064.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_04] And now, Savage Love listeners who sent in comments about last week's show get to have the last word as they always do on this week's show.

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_07] Hi, Dan and team. This is a response call for the woman who was wanting to blow up her life. My friend, yes, I say with confidence that everyone thinks it and everyone wants to do it. I think there is a real thing particularly about being a woman. And, you know, the heights of achievement for being a woman is getting married, right?

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_07] And having kids. And even if you also have a great career and wonderful friends and all of that stuff, I certainly found when I hit 40, kind of raising my head above the parapet and looking around and being like, is this it? Is this everything I've been working to achieve? This is it? I'm not sure this is enough. And I say that with a huge amount of love for my wonderful husband and kids and my life, which I do love. I'd also say perimenopause is a real thing.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_07] You know, there's a reason why lots of women blow up their lives in their 50s. It's menopause, like there's like anxiety button, rage button, a total, like often a lack of confidence button, like a whole melee of stuff that you are also potentially navigating. Might not be it, but might be worth looking into. I would encourage you to sketch out and protect some time for yourself, be that through therapy. Therapy really helped me save my life, save my marriage.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_07] But what it did for me was really help me figure out what I wanted and where I was at and what freedom looks like for me.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_01] This is a comment for the wife in episode 1041, who is turned on by her husband, you know, kind of cucking her a little bit and parting with other women. And what we did was we, especially if she ends up being either like a repeat customer or someone that he knows he can trust.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01] What we did with a partner to show that my husband was fully OK with things is we created a shared album, whether it's on like Google Photos or Apple or whatever. We created a shared album that was like password protected and locked so that it doesn't show up on our phones, but so that we could all see where the photos are going. And you can also track who download the photos to a personal device.

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01] So that way, at least there's the we all get to see what photos and videos and whatnot are being shared and who has that information. So it's a nice way to establish a little bit more trust in doing so. Good luck and have fun. You two are lucky.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_08] Hey, Dan, I'm calling in response to last week's intro where you discussed the idea of reappropriating misogynist comedian Shane Gillis's name to describe a man who has to pay for sex to get it and why such a term would be unnecessarily shaming to the wrong people. And I totally agree. But I feel like there's a much more obvious definition staring us in the face.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_08] My first thought was that a Gillis is the type of hypocrite who relies on the sex industry and adult entertainment to have any access to sex himself, only to turn around and project his own self-hatred and shame onto the women who provide those very services and onto all women by extension.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_08] And I think the term really is needed today when we're seeing these loud, sanctimonious Gillises everywhere from social media to politics to cringy, poorly written stand up. So, yeah, guys, keep paying for sex and porn and supporting the women in those industries. Just don't be a Gillis about it. Nobody likes a Gillis.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_04] And we are going to leave it there. Got a question for me? Go to savage.love slash askdan to record and upload your question or your comment directly onto our website. Or email us a voicememal at q at savage.love. Or you can record and text your question to 206-302-2064. Or you can call that number and leave us a voicemail. And if you tried something new and you want to tell me all about it, send us an email to q at savage.love. Let us know what you tried and you might be my next guest on After Action Report.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_04] Seattle, Chicago, Nashville, the Hump Film Festival is in you this weekend. To watch the trailer for the fall tour and get tickets now, go to humpfilmfest.com. And filmmakers, submissions for the 2027 Hump Film Festivals are due soon. Submitting is easy and free. And if you get your creative amateur porn into Hump, you will get paid for it. Hump filmmakers receive a cut of every ticket sold. Submit your film by November 6th for the 2027 Spring and Fall Hump Film Festivals.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_04] Head to humpfilmfest.com for all the info you need. Follow me at bluesky at dan savage. Follow me on Instagram at dan savage. Follow Eli McCann on Instagram at bluesky at eliwmccann. Read his wonderful new novel, Stitched. And for all things Eli, his podcast, live show, newsletter, and more, go to his website, itjustgetsstranger.com. The Savage Lovecast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_04] And me and Nancy and the tech-sevy at-risk youth, we'll all be back at you next week with a new installment, a quickies installment of the show. Thank you for downloading. Today's episode was brought to you by Love Unlimited.

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